22:26 < GPT> thermoplyae: discussion at Traxus Project about merger with Pfhorpedia. Ecpeterson said he might ask here for a tie-breaker, so I was just wondering about how far that had gotten. 22:26 < treellama> ecpeterson is a lamer 22:27 < thermoplyae> i'm ecpeterson, and i hadn't asked 22:27 < thermoplyae> what do you think, guys 22:27 < GPT> oh 22:27 < thermoplyae> decide the future of Traxus 22:27 < RyokoTK> uh Pfhorpedia sucks balls 22:27 < treellama> where is the merge going to happen? 22:27 < treellama> I don't like pfhorpedia, and I distrust wikia 22:27 < thermoplyae> i don't know, here or there or not at all 22:27 < RyokoTK> the top article on Pfhorpedia is the stupid Sfiera. 22:27 < thermoplyae> they're all options 22:27 < GPT> RyokoTK: it's not my fault that's the page people view the most 22:27 then whose fault is it 22:28 < GPT> RyokoTK: "Top Content" means "pages people view the most" 22:28 < RyokoTK> oh no kidding 22:28 < RyokoTK> thanks a lot, Jimbo Wales 22:28 < blusock> so then its ppl's fault 22:28 < thermoplyae> content isn't really the issue 22:28 < thermoplyae> since if there's a merger all the content will end up in the same place 22:28 < thermoplyae> it's more where and why 22:28 < RyokoTK> yes but then Sfiera would be the top article on Traxus too -_- 22:28 < blusock> unless theres nothing better to look at, so all the ppl look at Sfiera 22:29 < blusock> what is that, btw 22:29 < thermoplyae> a pfhor ship, can't remember which 22:29 < RyokoTK> Pfhor goddess, apparently. 22:29 < GPT> blusock: the first game... and a half... have level pages with synopses, waiting for people with more time on their hands to write up trivia, walkthroughs, etc. 22:29 < RyokoTK> And they named a ship after it. 22:30 < RyokoTK> Anyway, I like Pfhorpedia's layout, kind of, and it's more visually appealing than Traxus. 22:30 < RyokoTK> But I abhor Wikia 22:30 < thermoplyae> there's a significant difference between what the two of us mean by 'synopsis' 22:30 < blusock> lol GPT im not pickin fights 22:30 < RyokoTK> and I don't like that particular variant of wiki, I prefer Traxus's 22:30 u dont hav to explain tome 22:30 < RyokoTK> GPT: compare Pfhorpedia to Wikipedia. 22:30 < GPT> blusock: k 22:30 < RyokoTK> In terms of interface, etc, not content 22:31 < treellama> mediawiki is definitely ftw 22:31 s.b.o./wiki uses it too 22:31 < treellama> yes 22:31 oh, it's a skin 22:31 < treellama> really 22:31 < treellama> why is it so ugly then? 22:31 < treellama> oh 22:31 < treellama> skin 22:31 * Hentai_Sama wonders if " :C " has its own entry on pfhorpedia 22:32 < GPT> they meant for it to be more Web 2.0... I didn't like it at first either, but I ended up switching and got used to it. 22:32 < RyokoTK> what's not Web 2.0 about Wikipedia? 22:32 < treellama> Pfhorpedia does have the advantage of having "thong" in its URL 22:32 < GPT> RyokoTK: no idea... maybe all the developers use Mac OS X? 22:33 < thermoplyae> heh 22:33 < treellama> but, traxus wins because it doesn't have a freaking verizon ad on the front page :C 22:33 seriously, ads vs no ads should be the biggest deciding factor of where it could live 22:33 if only someone would donate an ad-free wiki! 22:34 < RyokoTK> Or we could just use traxus. 22:34 < RyokoTK> Which has no ads. 22:34 < treellama> wait, someone did 22:34 < RyokoTK> Or sbo/wiki, which has no ads. 22:34 < thermoplyae> so apparently there's some bias towards traxus 22:34 < thermoplyae> maybe it would be useful to the discussion for you to say why traxus is inadequate, gpt 22:34 < treellama> yeah, but it tries to be more engine and content-development centric 22:37 < RyokoTK> why aren't all three merged? 22:37 < GPT> Traxus is lacking in promotion, mainly. a Google for "marathon" turns up Pfhorpedia way before Traxus, IIRC, as well as many other Google searches. there's also more promotion for people who haven't heard of the game itself (and there are always people willing to start playing games, even old ones) from other Wikia that have "partnerships," as well as numerous other editors who would be willing to help out *without* paying the game... an' stuff. 22:37 < treellama> other people use wikia? 22:37 < GPT> -_- 22:37 < treellama> it just seems like a pointless ad-farm 22:37 < RyokoTK> lol 22:38 < RyokoTK> no wikia is actually legit 22:38 < treellama> hmm 22:38 < treellama> I hate gamers 22:38 < thermoplyae> searching on marathon catches a bit of the searches 22:39 < thermoplyae> on the other hand, searching on the quoted string "waterloo waterpark" brings up traxus quickly. still not as quickly as pfhorpedia, but the difference is considerably less drastic 22:39 < thermoplyae> or other marathon-related things 22:39 < treellama> I got real wikipedia first when I searched 22:39 < treellama> which links to traxus 22:40 < GPT> Pfhorpedia comes up before Wikpedia for "waterloo waterpark," and probably others as well. 22:40 < treellama> schedule P 22:41 < thermoplyae> it does, but again, the difference isn't as great as you make it out to be 22:41 < thermoplyae> regardless, yes, it's something we could be doing better 22:41 so's traxus 22:41 < GPT> it's the *eighth* on the page, yes... but it's there =P 22:41 < thermoplyae> sixth result 22:42 < thermoplyae> okay apparently we're searching differently 22:42 < treellama> honestly, how much could rank in search engine matter? 22:42 * GPT adds quotes 22:42 < RyokoTK> being first really helps 22:42 < treellama> I assume google updates once in a while, so if one goes away 22:43 < GPT> thermoplyae: without quotes (which is how a lot of people search), there's a page in difference. *with* quotes, the first result says "Halo." anyway, getting off the detailed bit... rank in search engines matters quite a bit--I'm usually more inclined to click in order... but I don't speak for everyone. =P 22:44 < thermoplyae> sure, i'm not saying we're beating you, i'm saying it's not the issue you make it out to be 22:44 * Bartman007 picks the first link that appears to be relative. 22:44 < thermoplyae> i would add quotes once i saw all the results for towns named waterloo 22:44 < treellama> you give other surfers too much credit 22:44 < thermoplyae> probably 22:44 < treellama> this guy I work with couldn't google his way out of a paper bag :( 22:45 < treellama> he'll look for stuff for 15 minutes and I type in one phrase and it's in the first page of hits 22:45 < Hentai_Sama> http://ko-chan.org/tg/src/1201777528137.jpg 22:45 < Hentai_Sama> http://ko-chan.org/tg/src/1201777224250.jpg 22:46 < Wrkncacnter> ok guys, pfhorpedia should have nothing but a link to traxus and BAM, all problems solved 22:46 well, you say pfhorpedia is getting all the attention so people will go there and link to the better site 22:47 < Hentai_Sama> http://ko-chan.org/tg/src/1201777393370.jpg 22:47 < Wrkncacnter> of course, i'm not big on real solutions 22:49 < treellama> eh, you know my opinion: someone is donating his time and bandwidth so people who use the wiki don't have to put up with ads or other crap that comes with wikia, why not use it 22:49 < treellama> but I don't use either wiki, so that counts for nothing :) 22:51 < Wrkncacnter> yeah, i don't care at all 22:51 < GPT> so people don't have to put up with ads? I absolutely agree. other crap? IMO, you mean other plusses... I've encountered nothing wrong with Wikia beyond the ads... 22:51 < Wrkncacnter> but if at all possible, i'd like to start a fight 22:51 * GPT smacks Wrkncacnter with a small halibut 22:51 < treellama> it's got all that stuff about other games and things on it, at least it did when I visited 22:51 < treellama> I'd hardly call those pluses 22:51 oh, in the Sidebar... Pfhorpedia links to nine wikis... and nine wikis link to Pfhorpedia. win all around for the ten wikis in question. 22:52 * blusock clubs GPT with a 4ft salmon 22:53 < treellama> there are a couple in the sidebar, a few in a big ugly banner underneath, and then a ton more in links underneath that 22:53 < treellama> then some "partners", "wikia messages" etc 22:53 < treellama> vs traxus, which just has marathon stuff 22:53 < Wrkncacnter> sounds lame 22:53 < GPT> treellama: the ugly banner underneath is only on the Main Page. the Sidebar link to nine others chosen by moi for maximum promotion stuffle. the other crap has expanded slightly... but the seekret new skin they're working on fixes that, IIRC. 22:53 < Bartman007> yeah, quite lame --> 19:53:55 <@treellama> vs traxus, which just has marathon stuff 22:54 * Bartman007 ducks 22:54 < treellama> it's possible I see all those because I didn't create an account 22:54 < GPT> Bartman007: quite lame that Traxus *just* has Marathon stuff? if that's what you're saying, you duck for good reason. 22:55 < treellama> I clicked on another page, and "DIGIMON WIKI" and "DEVIL MAY CRY" are still there 22:55 < GPT> O_O 22:55 DIGIMON!!!!! 22:55 < Bartman007> err, salmon 22:55 < treellama> I mean, this is a joke right? 22:55 lower right hand corner 22:56 < treellama> "wikia spotlight" 22:56 < Wrkncacnter> pfhorpedia should be ashamed of itself 22:56 < GPT> ah. 22:56 < GPT> more advertising... which will be reduced with the new skin. 22:56 < treellama> yeah, first thing I'd do if I set up a generic game wiki is filter out "digi" 22:56 < Wrkncacnter> haha 22:56 < doy> seriously, though, why would we use wikia if we have the resources to do it on our own 22:57 < Wrkncacnter> ^ 22:57 < treellama> dude ^^ 22:57 < GPT> you get moar promotionz with Wikia. 22:57 < Wrkncacnter> show me statistics 22:57 < treellama> I can't wait to see tons of digimon fans streaming into the channel 22:58 < treellama> there's a third option: we could set up a wiki on marathon.bungie.org 22:58 < doy> you keep going on about this promotion thing 22:58 < treellama> that's where one really belongs, after all 22:58 < treellama> then you guys could both put your stuff there 22:58 < treellama> no problems with promotion 22:58 < Wrkncacnter> i don't want to attract digimon users 22:59 actually even Tycho doesn't like Wrkncacnter 22:59 < doy> then why is there a link for them 22:59 -!- blusock has left chat #alephone ("AdVictoriam"). 22:59 < Bartman007> GPT: I don't think they exist in the first place. 22:59 < GPT> doy: there's a link *there* because that's a randomized spotlight. 23:00 < treellama> so the doom link is hand selected? 23:00 < doy> so wikia has ads and digimon links 23:00 < Wrkncacnter> i like treellama's 3rd option 23:00 < GPT> treellama: yes, I chose to partner with Doom and Duke Nukem because they're both older FPSs. 23:00 < Wrkncacnter> you should partner with NitsLoch 23:01 < treellama> I didn't really think the appeal of Marathon is that it is old 23:01 < treellama> does nitsloch have a wikia? 23:01 < Wrkncacnter> no, i was just hoping to reject the partnership 23:02 < treellama> :( 23:02 < GPT> you were hoping to reject it? 23:02 < GPT> why'd you suggest it if you're just gonna reject it when I agree? 23:02 < Wrkncacnter> i like to annoy people 23:02 < treellama> GPT: he's pure evil 23:02 < treellama> ever since he escape that sun he's been causing nothing but chaos 23:02 < treellama> *escaped 23:03 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: so you *don't* want me to link to you? alright, then. 23:03 < Wrkncacnter> what would you link to? 23:03 < GPT> wrk.treellama.org 23:03 < Wrkncacnter> you should just have a link to this http://wrk.treellama.org/images/NL-shit.png 23:03 < treellama> there should seriously be a loch wiki 23:03 -!- LegacyTyphoon (n=bmaish@c-76-113-69-142.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) has joined chat #alephone. 23:03 -!- ChanServ has set mode +v LegacyTyphoon . 23:03 < treellama> pooooooop 23:03 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: I was thinking a less specific link... so people could find that on their own. 23:03 < Hentai_Sama> leggy! 23:04 < treellama> oh, hi legs 23:04 < LegacyTyphoon> hey 23:04 < Wrkncacnter> oh i know 23:04 < Wrkncacnter> but NL has nothing to do with marathon, so you shouldn't have the link at all 23:04 < Wrkncacnter> it was just a joke 23:04 < treellama> NL could link to Duke Nukem! 23:04 < Wrkncacnter> omgz 23:05 < Bartman007> treellama: are we playing Six Degrees of Duke Nukem? 23:06 < treellama> I'm playing "troll #alephone" 23:06 < LegacyTyphoon> hooray 23:06 < treellama> I don't know what YOU'RE playing 23:07 < treellama> slave: I can add another album to tto for low-res/high color textures if you're sick of imagesack 23:07 < Slave> please :) 23:07 < treellama> ok, I'll get on that tomorrow 23:07 < Slave> did you think those ones were any good? 23:07 < Slave> that I posted? 23:08 < treellama> sure, I don't know how much use low res ones are though 23:08 < treellama> low-res/infinity are good for patches 23:08 < treellama> high-res/high color are good for scenarios 23:08 < Slave> yeah 23:08 < treellama> not sure what you do with low-res/high color 23:08 < Slave> well, I might just end up making them hi-res/high colour 23:09 < Slave> once I can 23:09 < treellama> ah 23:09 < Slave> (am good enoguh with photoshop) 23:09 < treellama> heh 23:09 < treellama> I'm going to run, now that I shut down wiki discussion completely :D 23:09 < Slave> okay, bye 23:09 < treellama> later dudes 23:09 < thermoplyae> thanks, dude 23:09 -!- treellama has left chat #alephone ("Well, isn't this ugly"). 23:10 < thermoplyae> i've stopped dicking around on the playstation, so if you want to have a serious discussion, gpt, we can attempt again 23:10 < GPT> k... 23:10 < thermoplyae> so, modulo trolling, the rest of the community seems to care about the ads more than anything else 23:11 < GPT> yeah... ads are the big deal... which makes no sense as there aren't even any ads on the page I'm looking at. WTF!? 23:12 < RyokoTK> I don't want to go to /other/ parts of Wikia when I look at Pfhorpedia. 23:12 < RyokoTK> I want to look at Pfhorpedia. 23:12 < thermoplyae> i see three on the page i'm looking at, plus two inter-wikia advertisements 23:12 < Wrkncacnter> pfhorpedia is trying to get me to use progressive 23:12 < Wrkncacnter> and it's quite large 23:12 < thermoplyae> which i guess isn't a lot in terms of quantity, except for how the page is small and so it's sort of high density 23:12 < thermoplyae> oh, hey, i missed a bunch 23:13 < doy> i mean, just the amount of the page dedicated to non-content things is irritating 23:13 < thermoplyae> more like 15 ads, counting little text things at the bottom 23:13 < RyokoTK> what doy said 23:13 < RyokoTK> Traxus is very much to-the-point. 23:13 < RyokoTK> In fact, the only thing that leads away from traxus.jjaro.net is the powered by Mediawiki icon in the lower right. 23:14 < doy> which is, you know, editable 23:14 < doy> since we run the server 23:14 < RyokoTK> right 23:14 < RyokoTK> And it's a fair admission anyway, imo. 23:14 < GPT> well, when they finalize the new skin they're working on... on the prototype, I see one ad on the top and a distinct lack of Wikia Spotlights... that should help a bit, eh? 23:15 < thermoplyae> maybe. hard to say without seeing it 23:15 < thermoplyae> apart from that on the short list of cons on the relevant traxus page, there's a question of canon-only policy 23:15 < thermoplyae> that seems pretty serious 23:16 < RyokoTK> I really dislike the deplorable state of the TGI guides on Traxus. 23:16 < GPT> I've replied to that issue on the Community Portal or whatever it is on Traxus... I'm willing to change that. 23:16 < RyokoTK> Especially since there are remarkably exhaustive guides with decorated images on the TGI website. 23:17 < RyokoTK> thermoplyae: why limit it to canon only? 23:17 < thermoplyae> i don't know, i wouldn't. and he says he's willing to change, to an extent 23:18 < GPT> RyokoTK: old habit from Halopedia, where most the users frankly aren't smart enough to distinguish canon from non-canon. 23:18 < RyokoTK> well, the Marathon community is probably smarter than the Halo community 23:18 < RyokoTK> even factoring in the retard farm at the Pfhorums 23:19 < RyokoTK> just have Category:Canon and Category:Noncanon 23:19 < GPT> which is why I'd be willing to change that policy. 23:19 < GPT> I'd rather have a new namespace (such as Noncanon:) rather than a category, personally... or even just a template to denote what is canon and what isn't. doesn't really matter *how* they're distinguished, just so long as it's done easily. 23:20 < Wrkncacnter> i can't wait until packard20 starts editing one of these 23:20 < RyokoTK> Well, whatever floats your boat. 23:20 < RyokoTK> I'm not an expert on wiki language 23:20 < RyokoTK> I know it's really simple, I just haven't devoted any time to it 23:20 < Wrkncacnter> same 23:21 < Wrkncacnter> maybe i'd care more if i actually edited these things 23:21 < RyokoTK> so GPT 23:21 < GPT> hi 23:21 < RyokoTK> you still haven't really explained why Wikia is such a great host 23:21 < RyokoTK> connectivity to other projects isn't that relevant 23:21 -!- BenUrban (n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined chat #alephone. 23:21 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o BenUrban . 23:22 < Wrkncacnter> i agree with BenUrban 23:22 < RyokoTK> I mean, if you're trying to get the name out for Marathon, I wouldn't rely on /any/ Marathon wiki to do that. 23:22 < GPT> well, there's connectivity to other projects =P... the folks at jjaro.net don't have to worry about bandwidth and whatnot... MediaWiki updates, moar custom features, etc. 23:22 < RyokoTK> The purpose of a Marathon wiki is a repository for Marathon-related information 23:22 < RyokoTK> which, presumably, only Marathon players would care about 23:22 < doy> GPT: but that stuff is easy 23:22 < doy> and so... not particularly relevant 23:23 < BenUrban> hmm? 23:23 < thermoplyae> it's true, i'm lazy about MediaWiki updates 23:23 < BenUrban> doy? why does your name look familiar? 23:23 < doy> and i agree with ryoko, which has been my point all along... i really don't see what all this talk about 'promotion' really gets us 23:24 < GPT> RyokoTK: 1. moar links could mean more people to play Marathon. 2. moar links means bettar search engine results means more people finding this wiki. 23:24 < RyokoTK> that doesn't address my point though 23:24 < GPT> what's your point, then? 23:24 < RyokoTK> (10:22:39 PM) RyokoTK: The purpose of a Marathon wiki is a repository for Marathon-related information 23:24 < RyokoTK> (10:22:44 PM) RyokoTK: which, presumably, only Marathon players would care about 23:24 < Wrkncacnter> typing "moar" doesn't help your case 23:24 < doy> BenUrban: nethack, probably 23:24 < RyokoTK> it really doesn't 23:24 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: sorry... 23:24 < BenUrban> ahh right 23:24 < doy> and, yeah, what wrk said 23:25 -!- LegacyTyphoon has left chat #alephone ("Somehow I find myself lacking in enthusiasm to go stand in a waiting line with a group of people whose battle cry is, "In the). 23:25 < RyokoTK> We already have means for promoting Marathon. 23:25 < RyokoTK> In fact, Halo 3 promoted Marathon far more effectively than anything else to date. 23:25 he thinks DIGIMON users will accidentally click on his link and fall in love with marathon 23:25 < RyokoTK> Why would someone on the Digimon wiki see "hey, look, a game called Marathon, but I like Digimon, is Marathon like Digimon? nope, it's not, guess I'll go back to Digimon" 23:25 < GPT> so Pfhorpedia is easier for Marathon players to find if they type "marathon game" into Google, for example. 23:26 RyokoTK: that's the Wikia Spotlight, which IMO is crap anyway. 23:26 < GPT> doy: easier to find the wiki, mainly. 23:26 < RyokoTK> Well, really 23:26 < RyokoTK> Marathon game gets me Wikipedia first. 23:26 < RyokoTK> Which is better than both Pfhorpedia and Traxus. 23:26 < doy> GPT: but there's links to traxus from all the main marathon sites 23:26 < thermoplyae> not to mention here, in the topic 23:26 < RyokoTK> "hur dur what's marathon lemme check google" 23:27 < RyokoTK> "hey look it's wikipedia, the most trustworthy source of meaningless info on the internet" 23:27 < doy> so people who care about marathon will find traxus 23:27 < Wrkncacnter> i don't know about you guys, but i use wikia to decide what games i like 23:27 < doy> this isn't really the issue here 23:27 < RyokoTK> A Marathon wiki is a tool for /existing Marathon players/ 23:27 < GPT> okay, so promotion isn't that big of a deal for you. you're fine with being sixth result for "waterloo waterpark" while Pfhorpedia's more detailed page is second. alright 23:28 < RyokoTK> boy that sure sounds like a straw man to me 23:28 < Wrkncacnter> i'm fine with just going to marathon's story page, personally 23:28 < doy> so, um 23:28 < RyokoTK> that too 23:28 < thermoplyae> what the crap 23:28 < doy> have you even compared the two pages 23:28 < thermoplyae> http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Waterloo_Waterpark_%28Level%29 23:28 < doy> just open up traxus for waterloo 23:28 < thermoplyae> http://traxus.jjaro.net/traxus/Waterloo_Waterpark 23:28 < doy> and open up pfhorpedia 23:28 < RyokoTK> Also, yes 23:28 < RyokoTK> Traxus's Waterloo Waterpark guide blows Pfhorpedia's away. 23:29 < GPT> Traxus has a walkthrough, trivia, and terminal text. 23:29 < RyokoTK> But even if it didn't, I didn't think that was the point. 23:29 < GPT> bad example. 23:29 < Bartman007> lol. 23:29 < doy> it's not the point, just pointing it out though 23:29 < RyokoTK> You said yourself that the issue was not whose wiki had better information 23:29 < thermoplyae> yes, terrible example 23:29 < RyokoTK> because we were joining them 23:29 < thermoplyae> i did 23:29 < RyokoTK> well so did GPT 23:29 < thermoplyae> even so, gotta maintain pride 23:30 < GPT> but still, you'd rather be SIXTH than SECOND result on Google. alright, if you don't care about that, one less reason to merge, I won't bother discussing it then. next issue? 23:30 < RyokoTK> so the question of "whose individual pages are better" is not actually the question worth answering. 23:30 < RyokoTK> lol 23:30 < doy> seriously 23:30 < Wrkncacnter> no one cares about that 23:30 < doy> we don't care 23:30 < RyokoTK> GPT misses the point again. 23:30 < GPT> what's the point, then? 23:30 < doy> ...i'm not sure i understand the question 23:30 < Wrkncacnter> to have content for existing marathon players 23:30 < RyokoTK> well, the point is which site is better 23:30 < RyokoTK> the google search is not an issue. 23:30 < doy> the entire point to you is google rank? 23:30 < thermoplyae> at the moment, the point is that traxus is the better maintained wiki, and without being convinced otherwise it's just going to sit there and be awesome 23:31 < GPT> doy: as far as promotion... yes, the entire point is Google rank. 23:31 < thermoplyae> if i'm convinced that it would have a better chance at better awesome on wikia, then so be it 23:31 < RyokoTK> GPT why are you ignoring me 23:31 again with this PROMOTION thing 23:31 < thermoplyae> so we're not convincing you, you're convincing us 23:31 < RyokoTK> GPT wikis are not a fucking advertisement 23:31 < doy> exactly 23:31 and we're saying this is not the way to go 23:31 < doy> GPT: it certainly is not 23:31 < thermoplyae> yeah, doy, burden of proof is on you 23:31 < GPT> doy: it isn't? 23:31 then what are we discussing? chickens? 23:32 < doy> you're the only one discussing it 23:32 < RyokoTK> (10:30:37 PM) RyokoTK: well, the point is which site is better 23:32 better in the Future, mind you 23:32 < doy> the wiki should be about content here 23:32 < RyokoTK> You won't bother discussing which site is better? 23:32 < doy> people who care about marathon can already find traxus just fine 23:32 < GPT> I will, then. 23:32 < doy> there's links to it throughout the marathon community 23:32 which site is better, other than content-wise, because all the content would be merged anyway? 23:33 my point is just that people know about it already 23:33 < doy> promotion isn't the issue 23:33 < RyokoTK> And you still haven't adequately answered that because you keep going PROMOTION!!! 23:33 < GPT> well then, you have my answer: Pfhorpedia. 23:33 < GPT> no, I do not. 23:33 < RyokoTK> yes, you do 23:33 < GPT> I said "let's change the subject" and you guys didn't 23:33 < RyokoTK> maybe without the caps but nevertheless. 23:33 < doy> pfhorpedia is better because why? 23:33 < doy> this is what we are trying to get at 23:33 < GPT> then I said "I will, then." and YOU brought up how I kept going PROMOTION!!!, meaning that YOU kept bringing up promotion. 23:34 < RyokoTK> (10:33:40 PM) doy: pfhorpedia is better because why? 23:34 < GPT> doy: updated MediaWiki. more features. better (IMO) skin. 23:34 < doy> okay, no more talk about promotion, or google ranks, or anything like that 23:34 < RyokoTK> answer that por favor. 23:34 < thermoplyae> what features 23:34 < GPT> RyokoTK: I am. 23:34 That's not an issue either. 23:34 < thermoplyae> by 'features' do you mean 'promotion' 23:34 < GPT> no. 23:34 < thermoplyae> then go on 23:34 < RyokoTK> Also isn't "more features" a subset of updating MediaWiki? 23:35 if someone needed something, i'd update 23:35 < RyokoTK> thermo can be bullied into doing stuff. 23:35 < doy> if there's a reason to, it's not hard 23:35 < thermoplyae> in fact, i have a track record of updating 23:35 < thermoplyae> someone wanted ParserFunctions or something 23:35 < Slave> what do either of these sites have that the story page or MSG don't? 23:35 < thermoplyae> anyway, features on demand 23:35 < thermoplyae> slave: organization 23:35 we're working on that 23:35 < Slave> oh, okay 23:35 < thermoplyae> okay, organization in the Future 23:35 < RyokoTK> well, they're working on that 23:35 < RyokoTK> I'm not. 23:36 < GPT> what they have is the fact that *anyone* can work on it, not just Hamish Sinclair, for example. 23:36 < doy> back to the issues though 23:36 < Slave> okay 23:36 < RyokoTK> Anyway, Traxus's skin is more compact 23:36 < RyokoTK> and familiar to Wikipedia users 23:36 < RyokoTK> which, last I checked, is everyone. 23:36 < thermoplyae> albeit color-ugly to some 23:36 < Slave> Traxus looked a lot nicer to me... 23:37 < RyokoTK> yeah, I'm not keen on the white on black, but that can be changed too. 23:37 Changed /easily/ 23:37 < RyokoTK> GPT: why not just use Monobook? 23:37 < GPT> "more Web 2.0" 23:37 < RyokoTK> that doesn't even make sense 23:37 < Slave> as for what comes up first in a google search... 23:37 < Wrkncacnter> GPT, your ideas are not intriguing to me and i wish to unsubscribe to your newsletter 23:37 < RyokoTK> you said that before, and you never satisfactorily explained why that matters. 23:37 < GPT> Wrkncacnter: go ahead, then. 23:37 < Slave> when I had just started playing marathon 23:38 < GPT> RyokoTK: the skin itself hardly matters, really. 23:38 < Slave> Id always get the storypage or MSG 23:38 < RyokoTK> GPT: you brought it up as a reason why Pfhorpedia is superior to Traxus. 23:38 < Slave> and the story page always had anything I needed... 23:38 < Slave> I never would have found traxus or pfhorpedia 23:38 < thermoplyae> isn't there something about the license 23:38 < Slave> as a random person not in the community 23:38 true 23:38 < RyokoTK> and Hamish doesn't care about Marathon anymore 23:39 < Slave> :O 23:39 < thermoplyae> the sad truth 23:39 < Wrkncacnter> and slave, what if you want to add something to the story page 23:39 < thermoplyae> still, license troubles 23:39 < Slave> like what? 23:39 < GPT> which is why Pfhorpedia and/or Traxus will always be superior to the Story page.. after they get to that point. 23:39 < Slave> I guess I just can't think of anything I'd even want to add... 23:39 < RyokoTK> Traxus has a number of mechanical advantages over Pfhorpedia. 23:39 < thermoplyae> good 23:40 < Slave> Oh, there also is another clip of ammo in that one room... 23:40 < RyokoTK> One, it's not part of Wikia, which has a tradition of being sloooooooow 23:40 < RyokoTK> in my experience, anyway. 23:40 < RyokoTK> Two, there's no encroachment from other, apparently more important wikis 23:40 < Wrkncacnter> i'm still don't think i've heard one reasonable advantage for pfhorpedia 23:40 < Wrkncacnter> i still* 23:40 < RyokoTK> "why would you be browsing Marathon when you could be reading MST3K?" 23:40 < thermoplyae> you know 23:41 < thermoplyae> if Halopedia allowed for non-canon links, the networking might be useful 23:41 < thermoplyae> imagine all the MC IS THE MARINE links 23:41 < thermoplyae> we'd be swimming in visitors 23:41 < Wrkncacnter> i'd rather not 23:41 < RyokoTK> lol 23:41 < doy> it's not under the control of wikia, which is personally a big thing... we can do whatever we want, and we know that traxus will still be there tomorrow (barring illegal things and whatnot) 23:41 < RyokoTK> thermoplyae: are you the admin for all jjaro.net? 23:41 < thermoplyae> i am 23:41 < RyokoTK> there you go 23:42 < RyokoTK> thermo is the man in power. 23:42 < GPT> anyway, I think Pfhorpedia is better for these reasons: unending flow of people willing to help *build up* the wiki, even those who don't play Marathon, including fixing the numerous "whom"s that need to say "who" instead when (if) Traxus merges into Pfhorpedia. snazzier layout with more features (including some Wikia-exclusive, meaning you can't have them) that may or may not really matter that much. free hosting that doesn't feed off of poor th 23:42 < GPT> ermoplyae's bandwidth. whole team of people working to make Wikia as a whole (and therefore all the individual bits) a lot better. there. happy? 23:42 * GPT smacks long lines 23:42 < RyokoTK> wait 23:42 < RyokoTK> what unending flow of people? 23:42 < thermoplyae> we talked about that on the traxus discussion page 23:42 < GPT> hyperbole FTW 23:43 < thermoplyae> it's been a featured wikia for a while, and in the past month there are like four distinct editors 23:43 < GPT> me and all the Wikia Gaming helpers, mainly 23:43 < Wrkncacnter> i didn't know thermoplyae's bandwidth was a problem 23:43 < GPT> it probably isn't. 23:43 < doy> Wrkncacnter: it's not 23:43 < GPT> it probably isn't. 23:43 < doy> Wrkncacnter: it's not 23:43 < RyokoTK> I don't know how much help someone completely unfamiliar with the game is. 23:43 < Wrkncacnter> ok, so i guess to answer your question, no i'm not happy 23:43 < GPT> also, I'm a big fan of the GFDL, as are quite a few people in the wiki world. 23:44 < GPT> ...which is why Pfhorpedia uses the GFDL. 23:44 < RyokoTK> Besides, the fewer anyone has to do with the Grammar Nazi Movement, the better :P 23:44 < GPT> D=:< 23:44 that's a personal thing anyway 23:44 < Wrkncacnter> we'll get a page on thusly 23:45 < RyokoTK> I agree that the expertise from experienced wiki* users may be of some service 23:45 < RyokoTK> even if all they do is make pages more encyclopedia-like 23:45 < thermoplyae> tbqh, i haven't read the gfdl 23:45 < thermoplyae> can anyone summarize it 23:45 < RyokoTK> Wikipedia can :P 23:45 < doy> gpl type thing 23:46 < thermoplyae> i don't know anything about the gpl either 23:46 < doy> "you must release modified versions under this license" 23:46 < doy> "you can't restrict people's access to copying things" 23:46 < doy> etc 23:46 < thermoplyae> forinstance, smithy is released under the uiuc license because it was short and contained what i wanted 23:46 < thermoplyae> ah 23:46 < thermoplyae> i see 23:47 < doy> basically all of my work is bsd/mit licensed because that's what i want for my work 23:47 < RyokoTK> Addressing your list, again, GPT, "snazzier layout" is a) tremendously subjective and b) a trivial change 23:48 < RyokoTK> thermo's bandwidth is a non-issue, as stated 23:48 < GPT> which is why I said "that may or may not really matter that much." 23:48 < thermoplyae> the license is sort of an issue, i guess 23:48 < RyokoTK> right, well, I'm not finished 23:48 < GPT> yes, as stated. 23:48 < GPT> go on 23:48 < RyokoTK> I'm addressing your points in turn. 23:48 < RyokoTK> The GFDL is something of some controversy 23:48 < RyokoTK> so we can't really say that having it makes it better without getting into that whole debate 23:49 < RyokoTK> having a handful of people who are bored and just tinker with our wiki may be of some benefit, though, I will grant 23:49 < RyokoTK> but that's about the only sure thing out of that list 23:50 < GPT> IMO, having it makes it better simply because so many other wikis use it... standardization FTW, partially because of my... Hell, I don't even know what it is. OCD, sort of thing. 23:50 < doy> but do we really want people who don't know anything about marathon messing with the wiki? 23:50 < thermoplyae> so what traxus's license is missing is some sort of guarantee that other people can republish the work 23:50 < thermoplyae> without explicit permission 23:50 < GPT> doy: I mess with all kinds of other wikis I know nothing about... they usually thank me for. 23:50 < thermoplyae> otherwise it seems to more or less align with the gfdl 23:50 < GPT> *for it. 23:50 < thermoplyae> from that brief description and my poor comprehension of the gpl, anyway 23:51 < RyokoTK> That's not at all as important as having editors that actually care about Marathon, though. 23:51 < RyokoTK> Having editors that have the time to clarify the English is a sort of tertiary issue 23:51 < thermoplyae> all the traxus editors have said that if all the traxus content went to pfhorpedia, they would go with it 23:51 < thermoplyae> we wouldn't be losing anyone, or at least not foreseeably 23:51 < RyokoTK> well, I know 23:51 < RyokoTK> that isn't what I meant 23:51 < thermoplyae> then i don't get it 23:52 < RyokoTK> I mean, we should be concerned on getting new editors that actually know the game 23:52 < RyokoTK> rather than getting new editors that just know English 23:52 < Wrkncacnter> is english a problem on traxus? 23:52 < RyokoTK> I mean, I'm a fairly competent writer, I could go around and tinker with the wording myself, and I can /additionally/ fix factual errors. 23:52 < GPT> Pfhorpedia's gained two editors from Halopedia who are familiar with Marathon who would have never found Traxus. 23:52 < thermoplyae> someone corrected a who/whom error the other day 23:52 < GPT> "someone"? that was me. ^_^ 23:52 < thermoplyae> that's it in the past year or so 23:52 < RyokoTK> why wouldn't Halopedia then link to Traxus 23:53 < RyokoTK> if a merger took place. 23:53 < RyokoTK> Is it illegal to link to wikis not on Wikia if you're a Wikia wiki? 23:53 < GPT> no 23:53 < RyokoTK> I mean, connectivity with Halopedia is of some relevance 23:53 < RyokoTK> connectivity with Digimon, not so much 23:53 < GPT> which is why the new skin says "screw you, Wikia Spotlights!" 23:54 < Wrkncacnter> i'd have to see this skin 23:54 < RyokoTK> either way, it's a non-issue, we can ask the Halopedia staff to link to Traxus 23:54 < RyokoTK> I'd find it highly unlikely that they'd decline. 23:54 < GPT> you find it highly unlikely that *I* would decline to link to the wiki I'm trying to get to merge the *other* way? =P 23:54 < RyokoTK> you run Halopedia too? 23:54 < GPT> ^_^ 23:54 < RyokoTK> man, talk about maturity 23:55 < RyokoTK> "I lost the merger war, so I'm not going to link to the wiki at all! nyah!" 23:55 < Wrkncacnter> yeah, sounds to me like you just like to run wikis :P 23:55 < GPT> if Pfhorpedia ended up merging into Traxus, I'd be more than willing, actually... hence the "=P" 23:55 < RyokoTK> right. 23:55 < RyokoTK> So, yet again, a non-issue. 23:55 < doy> GPT: do you have a link to anything that shows what the new wikia skin will look like? 23:56 maybe 23:56 < GPT> I'll just chop off the address bar up 23:56 < RyokoTK> depends on what's in the screenshot :P 23:56 < RyokoTK> anyway, GPT, not being a member of Pfhorpedia, there are ads. 23:56 < RyokoTK> I don't know if that changes when I register 23:56 < GPT> it's not membership... 23:56 < GPT> IIRC 23:56 < RyokoTK> but Traxus doesn't have ads for anyone, ever. 23:57 < thermoplyae> how cozy are you with the wikia administration that they give you hidden links? 23:57 < RyokoTK> And nobody will, in the future, be forcing ads upon us. 23:57 < Wrkncacnter> it basically comes down to licence and minor fixes with english vs no ads 23:57 < thermoplyae> because being cozy with the admins is pretty convenient 23:57 < RyokoTK> Wrk: and personally knowing the administrator 23:57 < RyokoTK> yes, thermo, but it's less convenient than /being/ the administrator 23:57 < Wrkncacnter> i thought GPT would give thermo admin access 23:58 < RyokoTK> yeah, but there are things that the Wikia admins can force on GPT 23:58 < thermoplyae> 'admin' in a loose sense 23:58 < Wrkncacnter> yeah i guess 23:58 RyokoTK: but what would they force on me? 23:58 < Wrkncacnter> ads 23:58 < RyokoTK> links to other wikis 23:58 < RyokoTK> hell, a link to Wikia. 23:59 < GPT> I link to nine other wikis of my own accord... they wouldn't force more on me. there's one banner ad at the top of the page... and nothing else. 23:59 marathon : the wiki wars 23:59 < GPT> I realize that. 23:59 < RyokoTK> No ads >>>>>>>>>>> at least 1 ad 23:59 < RyokoTK> if I want to browse the Pfhorpedia, I have to wait for some shitty ad to load 23:59 < RyokoTK> well, /I/ don't, I have Adblock, but not everyone does. 00:00 < Slave> I don't :( 00:00 < RyokoTK> right. 00:00 < doy> it's not just the ads though 00:00 < doy> like i said 00:00 < thermoplyae> yeah, and slave is our target audience 00:00 < Wrkncacnter> haha 00:00 < RyokoTK> doy: I know, but it's a valid point 00:00 < doy> the size of the content vs the size of everything else on the page 00:00 < RyokoTK> thermoplyae: he's certainly a fair representative. 00:00 < doy> is ridiculous 00:00 < RyokoTK> there is that, too 00:00 < thermoplyae> tk: i agree, and it's good that he's here 00:00 < Slave> :) 00:01 < RyokoTK> like I said earlier, it's encroachment 00:01 < RyokoTK> Traxus doesn't encroach at all 00:01 < doy> this might be improved by this "new skin", but i'm waiting to see what that looks like 00:01 < Wrkncacnter> but he's already given his opinion that he doesn't care about either wiki 00:01 < GPT> doy: you won't be waiting much longer... 00:01 < thermoplyae> is that a threat 00:01 < RyokoTK> snap 00:01 < thermoplyae> hurry up :( 00:01 < RyokoTK> "this is a Monobook clone that is 'more web2.0' even though that's essentially a meaningless phrase" 00:02 < Wrkncacnter> i dunno, i say we just let switch start a wiki 00:02 < RyokoTK> that's a fantastic idea, wrk. 00:02 < GPT> http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1687/picture1lf1.png 00:02 < thermoplyae> yes, a third wiki is the way to go 00:02 < RyokoTK> Why would I be loading 80 effing images 00:03 < Slave> Meet other halo fans? 00:03 < GPT> "Meet Other Halo Fans" and "Site Activity" refer to features which everyone would say "DILLIGAF" to, and therefore won't be on Pfhorpedia... so act like they aren't there. 00:03 < RyokoTK> see, that's the other good thing about Traxus, almost every image is pertinent to the page. 00:03 < thermoplyae> it's good looking 00:03 < GPT> RyokoTK: show me an image on Pfhorpedia that is not pertinent to the page? 00:03 < RyokoTK> Alright that's fair enough, then. 00:03 < GPT> *. 00:03 < doy> what's it look like scrolled down further? 00:03 < RyokoTK> GPT: the ad. 00:03 < RyokoTK> uh, Wikia Gaming banner near the bottom 00:03 < RyokoTK> the background 00:04 < RyokoTK> two Wikipedia spotlight ads 00:04 < GPT> more content and one Gaming banner which we've elected to have 00:04 < GPT> two Wikipedia spotlight ads? no. 00:04 < thermoplyae> "play the picture game" 00:04 < RyokoTK> errr 00:04 < RyokoTK> Wikia 00:04 < RyokoTK> not Wikipedia 00:04 < GPT> still, no. 00:04 < RyokoTK> oh, they aren't there? 00:04 < RyokoTK> I must be delusional, then 00:04 < GPT> thermoplyae: another community feature that's unecessary. 00:04 < GPT> RyokoTK: they're there on the current skin, not on the new. 00:04 < thermoplyae> so can you provide a screenshot that portrays what we would see 00:05 < thermoplyae> beyond providing a color scheme, this isn't too useful 00:05 < doy> just scroll down to the bottom and give another screenshot 00:05 < thermoplyae> since half of what we see is apparently irrelevant 00:05 < GPT> not at the moment... but I can ask for one. 00:05 < doy> or yeah, a smaller page would work too 00:06 < RyokoTK> Well, Traxus won't have the Wikia Gaming banner on the very top of the page. 00:06 < GPT> btw, the "Meet Other Halo Fans" and "Site Activity" are only on the main page anyway. 00:06 < Wrkncacnter> "every tackle, every run" 00:06 < Wrkncacnter> good stuff 00:06 < RyokoTK> I originally meant the "More Wikia Gaming" image near the bottom of Pfhorpedia's current page. 00:06 < GPT> of Pfhorpedia's current *main* page... 00:07 < RyokoTK> having a good main page is crucial 00:07 < doy> which is, you know, the one that people see first 00:07 < GPT> yeah 00:08 < RyokoTK> the only fault with Traxus's main page is the red 00:09 < RyokoTK> and that's really not a fault of the site itself 00:09 < RyokoTK> it's not laid out particularly neatly, but that's another non-issue 00:10 < doy> yeah, i just came up with the monobook.css modifications for traxus in like an evening to go along with the colorscheme of the rest of jjaro.net 00:10 < doy> before it really became independantly popular at all 00:10 < RyokoTK> well, whatever, I'm not going to gripe about the skin anymore, because that's not really getting to the core of the issue 00:10 < doy> if people want it changed, that's not a big deal 00:11 < RyokoTK> Well, most of my wiki browsing takes place on Wikipedia 00:11 < doy> right 00:11 < RyokoTK> I'm rather familiar with how Wikipedia looks and feels 00:11 < RyokoTK> and I like it, it's comfortable, all of the menu options are present without taking up much space 00:11 < RyokoTK> and there isn't any wasted space at all in the menu areas 00:12 < RyokoTK> I would think that looking and feeling like Wikipedia is probably a benefit to all of our users 00:12 < doy> exactly... traxus has maybe 100px on the left side taken up by nav bars, and probably the same on top and bottom combined 00:12 < Wrkncacnter> links on traxus are kind of hard to see 00:12 < Wrkncacnter> that would be the first thing i'd fix 00:12 * GPT g2g now. 00:12 < GPT> I've emailed the people in charge of the skin, y'all should be getting a link to what Pfhorpedia's main page would look like in the new skin--completely scrollable, I think--sometime soon. 00:12 < RyokoTK> yeah but that's a color scheme problem 00:12 < doy> okay 00:13 -!- GPT has left chat #alephone (""jippity doo dah, jippity ay" ~nalioth").